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Issues and Ideas

Have Your Say! - Season 4 & 11

Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:43 pm
Author: SevenofNine
Post your likes/dislikes of the last season here. If you have any ideas for the future feel free to share Smile

Re: Have Your Say! - Season 4 & 11

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:47 am
Author: BenZino Location: Narrow
If a general consensus could be found, playing forced Sunday matches at 21:00 would possibly be a good idea?

Comments are welcome.

Re: Have Your Say! - Season 4 & 11

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:56 am
Author: doornroosje
I think the forced TS matches at 22:00 are because the forced CTF matches are at 21:00. This leaves opportunity for the teams that compete in both leagues to play both of them.

If anything I guess the CTF match could be at 20:30, when the Ts match stays at 22:00 so that there is a little more time for teams to get ready, but since I do not play in both leagues, I do not know if this is something teams would want to address.

Re: Have Your Say! - Season 4 & 11

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:20 pm
Author: CRIS
First of all, i have to say nice job with uz 7o9, eya, gnurk etc.

I have some ideas i would like to share.

1: map pool

Each team choses a map to play, all those maps are the map pool for that division and each team can only pick each map once.

So for example there is a division with

Team pick map of the whole uz map pool based on ranking on that league, the most probable to win picks first, 2nd most probable to win picks 2nd etc

Team 1 pick Casa
Team 2 pick Turnpike
Team 3 pick Orbital_sl
Team 4 pick Kingdom_rc6
Team 5 pick Sanctuary
Team 6 pick Abbey

Team 1 vs Team 2: Team 1 pick Casa, cause Team 2 are their biggest rivals on this div and they need to get most points out of this game.
Team 1 vs Team 3: Team 1 pick Turnpike, cause Team 3 is the weakest in the div and as such, they pick their worst map cause they need to save better maps for the future.
Team 1 vs Team 4: Team 1 now without TP and Casa, will play the 2nd weakest in the div and so they pick their 2nd worst map Abbey.
Team 1 vs Team 5: Team 1, will face a team that is very good on Casa, but are bad on Sanc, so they pick sanc knowing their opponents weakness.
Team 1 vs Team 6: Team 1, now have 2 maps left to pick orb and kingdom, they pick kingdom cause the other team isn't good at it.

1. We don't get surprised with a map cause we know the 6 map pool, instead of 30+ and get a maya or oildepot by surprise.

2. People cannot rely on only 1 map, like it is normal every season. Some people ALWAYS play prague, or ALWAYS casa, or ALWAYS tp, or ALWAYS uptown or etc

3. This makes things interesting cause people have to manage and pick maps based on opponents strengths and weakness.

This is easy to do its just each team say to division supervisor in a channel what map they pick and in match report people say what map they picked.

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2:Ranking

I think rankings should not be the way they are. I agree with points, its just the 2nd criteria used, NET rounds.

Its really bad cause it, motivates 1. Rape: so they rape a clan weaker on the division so they can get lots of caps or lots of rounds and 2:Camp then against harder teams hardcore camp to not lose rounds.
Favors faster paced maps, slower more tactical maps aren't taken into account into that second criteria.
Some teams can use subs to play lesser skilled opponents, this gives them the opportunity to play, instead of raping opponent in the ass.
This unmotivates teams and leads them to leave the league.

What can be done is if X number of teams have the same number of points, it can be decided based on the efficiency of rounds won by total rounds not drawed, on their opponent map.

So lets say

Team 1 vs Team 2 is a draw, Team 1's map was Casa if you remember, they won that 9-3, but lost 20-11 on opponents map.

On current rules something like this would favor Team 2, even though they rushed most of the time without thinking all they thought was "KILL KILL KILL while jumping like a monkey".
Team 1 played extremely careful on casa cause they wanted to have at least 3 X efficiency going into the next map, they never camped to just win the map, they had to try to win more rounds to get effecieny better, but without losing rounds, so they had to be careful in doing so. Team 1 played really smart moved in when they should, played positional when they should, was a great match.

On map 2 Turnpike, the pressure was on Team 2 cause now they need to win with at least 3 X efficiency, this map was extremely fast, but Team 1 was prepared, to lose map cause even if they would be tied in points by the end of the division, they would win cause of opponents poor efficiency due to badly coordinated and thought out rushes on TP and casa.

To finish i hope all seasons are successful as this one or more!

Re: Have Your Say! - Season 4 & 11

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:27 pm
Author: CRIS

- doornroosje

I think the forced TS matches at 22:00 are because the forced CTF matches are at 21:00. This leaves opportunity for the teams that compete in both leagues to play both of them.

If anything I guess the CTF match could be at 20:30, when the Ts match stays at 22:00 so that there is a little more time for teams to get ready, but since I do not play in both leagues, I do not know if this is something teams would want to address.

For people that live in WET, 20:30 CET is 19:30, so that is very early.

Re: Have Your Say! - Season 4 & 11

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 1:40 pm
Author: rasta.blaster
Start Bomb Mode league.

Re: Have Your Say! - Season 4 & 11

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:09 pm
Author: SevenofNine

- BenZino

If a general consensus could be found, playing forced Sunday matches at 21:00 would possibly be a good idea?

As said by others we got 21:00 and 22:00 because you can play in both leagues.

- CRIS

1: map pool

Personally I want to encourage playing more different maps, so I don't really agree with this, especially as it's already more or less the way it goes. Most clans play 1 map and stick to it. And checking this would add another burden on the admins, sorry I don't see it happening Smile

- CRIS

2:Ranking

The first thing we look at is total points in your division, then if you are drawn on that we look at the match between those clans, and then we look at net score. The focus is both on attack, and damage limitation, but there is something to be said for your method. We'll consider it.

- rasta.blaster

Start Bomb Mode league.

It will happen, and likely a lot more competitions/events, we're just waiting for urt HD (or a working cross platform anti-cheat)

Thx for the comments/crits up to now, we appreciate them!

Re: Have Your Say! - Season 4 & 11

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:29 pm
Author: eya_allam Location: Slovakia
I hate the idea of limited choice and forced maps. not to mention that in more than one way, it invites speculation of admin abuse. if it just so happens that my team's best map is forced for the week we play our strongest opponent... hmmm...

as for picking from limited pools until they are exhausted - that's boring, plain and straight. picking a map is part of your strategy. either you are a traditionalist and play your home map most of the season, relying on your knowledge and coordination, or you're a strategist and pick maps according to opponents' qualities. if your opponent has good jumpers, you're not gonna play uptown vs them even if it's your home map, you will pick something where speed and knowledge of routing is not such a perk. if your opponent is easily upset, you may pick a map with annoying camp spots, to drive the opponent just a little crazy. personally, unless a team puts up their pink tents behind every box and tree or starts hacking, I say all is fair in war. wide map selection is part of that.

this season we've seen teams pick some unusual maps (swim, orbital and casa for ctf, to name a few) and they weren't always to the teams' advantage. it's not all "they pulled a map out of their ass and now we're gonna lose"; it's all about "they picked a very different map and we have to try to win and prove we're better". and I have a lot of respect for teams who manage that, without extensive whining.

p.s. docks ftw Smile

(I'm not saying you're whining)

Re: Have Your Say! - Season 4 & 11

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:44 pm
Author: CRIS
I seem to explained myself incorrectly, due to the responses.

"I hate the idea of limited choice and forced maps. not to mention that in more than one way, it invites speculation of admin abuse. if it just so happens that my team's best map is forced for the week we play our strongest opponent... hmmm... "

There isn't limited choice people can pick 1 of the 34(for TS )/35(for ctf) maps on your map pool to include on their uz map pool division.
If you know combinatory that allows for (assuming a div had 8 teams and they all pick different maps) 23,535,820 diferent map pools.
I used this site to calculate it www.vpgenius.com/tools/combin.aspx :P, was to lazy to get my calculator.
Maps aren't forced, they manage which maps to pick, remember same map cannot be picked twice, instead of playing same map a million times to death.
This adds a element of management, cause people have to manage which maps are left to play based on which opponents are left to play.
Gets less boring, cause we cannot play turnpike/casa a million times.
Less draws.

"if your opponent has good jumpers, you're not gonna play uptown vs them even if it's your home map, you will pick something where speed and knowledge of routing is not such a perk."

Well i beat teams in the past that were more skilled than us(aimwise) and better jumpers in uptown, by abusing my positional advantages and exposition in uptown(was against a turkish team, they raped us on algiers), they even whined and everything at the end on how the map sucked etc.
Uptown is really about tactics, lesser skilled teams(at aiming and( or) jumping etc) can beat others on that map with good tactics.
I really think uptown is a good map and no idea as to why it isn't included in other leagues Sad

(Yes i am talking about CB). It reminds me a lot of quake live maps with various levels like aerowalk and where positioning is key.

"this season we've seen teams pick some unusual maps (swim, orbital and casa for ctf, to name a few) and they weren't always to the teams' advantage. it's not all "they pulled a map out of their ass and now we're gonna lose"; it's all about "they picked a very different map and we have to try to win and prove we're better". and I have a lot of respect for teams who manage that, without extensive whining."

With this system we could have a possible division map pool of Maya, oildepot, elgin etc depending on what each team votes for. I was just talking about this current way people have to practice all 100 maps, cause they can play all games except 1 on casa then against you they play maya and have really good tactics there for example. How would u expect something like that when your opponents tell their map 1 minutes before match starts and they never played that match on previous clan wars?
With this system you know hey they have these 3 maps left to choose so lets practice.

"(I'm not saying you're whining) "

Its no secret my team picks orbital_sl every time on TS and turnpike every time on CTF, is it boring ? Yes, but thats how u avoid depromotion, only get good at playing a map and abuse it. My team isn't the only one and i don't blame people for doing this, the system favors this way.

Re: Have Your Say! - Season 4 & 11

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:51 pm
Author: eya_allam Location: Slovakia
there are teams who do it both ways. choice always wins. I personally prefer not forcing anyone/not being forced to adjust to other people's idea about "fitting maps", to a reasonable extent, ofc

Re: Have Your Say! - Season 4 & 11

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 5:37 pm
Author: rasta.blaster
Start bomb mode leauge, please.

Re: Have Your Say! - Season 4 & 11

Posted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 6:02 pm
Author: SevenofNine

- rasta.blaster

Start bomb mode leauge, please.

Didn't you read my reply? Smile