Fixture agreement

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Fixture agreement

Post Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:40 pm

www.urban-zone.org/ind...ture=10380

I was not at home on sunday afternoon, and this morning at 8.00 I saw the match fixed on Friday... Sad
This is absolutely not fair, because it depends from the one who stays longer in front of the PC to put the latest reschedule. Next time should I wait Sunday 23.59.59 to reschedule the match???

If no agreement has been found you should schedule at default date (Sunday), not at the last one suggested by one of the two teams!
Last year we lost a lot of matches because of this unfair behaviour!

Furthermore rules are different from referee to referee??? See here below the answer I received about a similar matter in CTF:

fixture 10123 (CTF div 11)

Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 11:19 am
From: Lebbra
To: BlackSoul
Hi BlackSoul,
Sunday 24.00 deadline is passed, and this match should be fixed to this evening at 21.00 as per UZ rules. Can you please fix it?
www.urban-zone.org/ind...ture=10123

tnx.



Re: fixture 10123 (CTF div 11)

Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:59 pm
From: BlackSoul
To: Lebbra
No i cant fix it cause if the other dont accept i have to fix it for deadline Sunday 21:00. So you have to talk to them about Date and Time and tell me


So it seems that:
If I ignore the scheduling, never suggesting a date, even if the opponent team suggest some dates, I can be sure that the match will be placed on default date.
If I suggest some date, but I'm not the latest one to reschedule, I must accept the last rescheduled date????


if it is not a mistake of one of the two referee, it is completely crazy!

In my opinion (and in everybody common sense) it should be:
1) If no teams suggest a schedule the match will be fixed at default date
2) If both teams suggest some date but there is no agreement before deadline (sunday 23.59.59) the match will be fixed at default date
3) If just one team suggest some date and the other don't care to reply, the match will be fixed at the suggested date.


It seems logic, isn't it?

Lebbra
Newbie
Newbie
 

Re: Fixture agreement

Post Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:19 pm

Teams are also only allowed to reschedule a match 3 times..
Wasn't that the problem?
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The S in xandaxs is the S of aweSome

xandaxs
Staff
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Re: Fixture agreement

Post Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:23 pm

Hey Lebbra.
I totally agree with your point of view m8.

If there's an evidence about you guys not being able to play it in the last suggested date (in the case it's not from your own team)
the match should be played on the default time.

Noway this rule should be bypassed. I think the rules are with you, you just have to contact a ref or even an head-admin.
You're totally right, imo.
_________________
...nella notte lo guidano le stelle...
These aren't the droids you are looking for.


AlexDenton
Staff
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Re: Fixture agreement

Post Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:30 pm

- Lebbra
If I suggest some date, but I'm not the latest one to reschedule, I must accept the last rescheduled date????


Not quite.

For each match 1 team is considered the "home" team and the other the "away" team. Each team is the home team and the away team an equal number of times throughout the season (depending on number of teams in the division of course, i.e. if there are an odd number of matches to be played you'll be home, or away, 1 more time than the other).

For each match the "home" team gets the last say in the rescedule process, so for half the matches this season YOU will get the last say, for the other half the other team will get the last say. It just so happens for this match you're the "away" team.

I don't know if this is in keeping with UZ rules, but that's how the software works.

The alternative would have be to allow an infinite number of reschedules and then the admin forces a date if the 2 teams can't agree, which is also possible with the software, but not how it's currently configured.
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Kendle
Webmaster
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Re: Fixture agreement

Post Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:39 pm

- xandaxs
Teams are also only allowed to reschedule a match 3 times..
Wasn't that the problem?


It should be 6, according to the league settings. If it's not allowing 6 let me know, could be a bug.
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Kendle
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Re: Fixture agreement

Post Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:58 pm

Kendle, I mean, are you speaking seriously?

The software is great, thank god we have something like that! Don't get me wrong.
But nothing about home and away teams are mentioned in the rules. And it's kinda obvious since it doesn't seem the smarter way.
I mean, with this "home teams get the last say" I can attempt to win half of the matches by no-show. All I have to do is to find a date when my opponents aren't available. It's sneaky imo, but possible.

That's why rules are so clear. No agreement --> Default time. And this is actually very smart.
But it should be respected. In the case Lebbra mentioned above, there's an evidence that his clan can't play in that date.
This should logically lead to a force at the default time. No way.

This home, away, is a feature for the software. But it can't, I'd say obviously, fit with the rules!
_________________
...nella notte lo guidano le stelle...
These aren't the droids you are looking for.


AlexDenton
Staff
Staff
 

Re: Fixture agreement

Post Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:15 pm

Just explaining how it works (and that half the time Lebbra would have the last say, not his opponent, it's just that way for this particular match).

I agree that UZ may not want it to work this way, but plenty of people do, this software is used in a COD league for example where it's very important to them who the "home" team is, not just for scheduling but also deciding which server to play on and who gets to choose which map gets played first etc.

If UZ want to allow infinite reschedules they can, but if not (infinite) then it has to be a fixed number (it could be 6, 60, 600 for all I care), but if it's a fixed number then someone goes last, and if someone goes last it's only fair each team gets to go last an equal number of times.
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Kendle
Webmaster
Webmaster
 

Re: Fixture agreement

Post Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:31 pm

Though im sure you'll get an official reply, I would really like to stress this scheduling is just an option for you guys to do it without intervention of a referee/admin...

TALK to your opponents, contact them, this way of scheduling is so unsociable!
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SevenofNine
Admin
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Re: Fixture agreement

Post Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:32 pm

Yeah, I got your point. And it makes sense, I agree.
The question is another though.

Is the software ruling all of it? I think it's not.
Rules are really clear. Where the software stops, it starts the role of the refs.
It's obvious a software can't do everything on its own.
Ref work should be standardized. If there's an evidence about a disagreement, the match should be moved to the default time. I mean, we all wanna see the matches PLAYED. This way, plenty of no-shows would be unavoidable (I don't even know if it's an actual word, forgive my english skills).

That's just unfair, as I see it.
_________________
...nella notte lo guidano le stelle...
These aren't the droids you are looking for.


AlexDenton
Staff
Staff
 

Re: Fixture agreement

Post Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:34 pm

- SevenofNine
Though im sure you'll get an official reply, I would really like to stress this scheduling is just an option for you guys to do it without intervention of a referee/admin...

TALK to your opponents, contact them, this way of scheduling is so unsociable!


SevenofNine, of course the first thing to do is to contact the opponent team and find a common agreement.
All I wrote above concern a situation where it was not possible to get in touch with opponents and/or we are not able to found an agreement.
Consider also that people has a real life also, and cannot spent a lot of time in looking for the opponents through the whole web. Because of that the scheduling system is very useful (if well used).

The points 1, 2, 3 I suggested in my previous post are not only logic, but also easy to respect and easy to be controlled by an admin. All that admins have to do in such a case is, (after deadline is passed) to check only the open matches and:
- fix them at the suggested date if there is just one scheduling
- fix them at the default date if there are zero or more than one scheduling

It is not only "common sense compliant", but also faster for admins that don't waste time to listen complaints as mine.

BTW the "6 rescheduling option" doesn't solve the problem, because the team who place the 6th reschedule will decide the date, even if opponents was not agree...

The home/away rule is not only unknown to all but webmaster, but also very complicate and meaningless, because in UrT home or away make no great differences on the game itself.

Lebbra
Newbie
Newbie
 

Re: Fixture agreement

Post Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:54 pm

Lebbra, I was simply trying to explain that for every occassion where you've had to conceed something to the opponent there would be an equal number of other occassions where YOU would have the upper hand, and it's not a "rule" it's just a feature of the software that UZ can use or not use as they see fit.

I'm surprised however to hear you say that home / away makes no difference. You play 2 maps per match, who decides which is played first? Who decides which side is played first by which team? I don't play UrT and haven't read the rules in full, so was just wondering. Wink
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Kendle
Webmaster
Webmaster
 

Re: Fixture agreement

Post Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:04 pm

I just have got to say at this point, that I made more than one attempt to indicate the problems with the sheduling system, all of this is not new.

I can even quote myself from this thread (http://urban-zone.org/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=532&start=0)

"UZ-Rules and Shedule System dont work together."

Nowone was willing to take the constructive criticism and work and the system then and still now I see the same problems being discussed here. One the one hand there is a system for sheduling, on the other the players are obligated to speak to each other but still are called upon to use the system. This is not coherent and needs to be adapted or problems like this will never be gotten rid off. Rules have to support the system as the system has to support the rules.

Greetings
Hummel

HummelHeXer
Newbie
Newbie
 

Re: Fixture agreement

Post Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:48 pm

The scheduling system is great imho.
It helps a lot admins and refs. It's useful when the teams find an agreement.
But sometimes refs have to put their hand and assure the whole thing will follow the rules.

The problem is not the scheduling system itself, since it's great.
The problem is how it is used. And how refs use it. That's all.
_________________
...nella notte lo guidano le stelle...
These aren't the droids you are looking for.


AlexDenton
Staff
Staff
 

Re: Fixture agreement

Post Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:37 pm

OMG!!! Shocked Shocked Shocked

Even this fixture where the opponent gave NO ONE answer has been fixed to sunday instead of the date required.
urban-zone.org/index.p...ture=10123

Starting from now our clan will never do a scheduling or give answer to a opponent scheduling anymore, and if UZ staff has a microgram of coherence all our matches should be scheduled on Sunday. Let's will see...

GL&HF

Lebbra
Newbie
Newbie
 

Re: Fixture agreement

Post Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2012 9:23 pm

- Kendle
- xandaxs
Teams are also only allowed to reschedule a match 3 times..
Wasn't that the problem?


It should be 6, according to the league settings. If it's not allowing 6 let me know, could be a bug.


Not sure if it is at this moment, but last season I had problems because of it..!
Was allowed 3 per team, making a total of 6..

xandaxs
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Staff
 
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